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threeheaded monkey

[BRAINSTORM] Let's have faith and talk about it!

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What about a second tech tree avaiable trough the temple?

 

1 hour ago, threeheaded monkey said:

Not faith through research, but through the actual use of a certain technology. The nuggets can't really "see" what perks we are researching in the tech tree, but they can "see" what kind of technology we want them to use.

They can/should  understand the advantages and disadvantages of it though and thus form an oppinion about their god and then generate faith accordingly.

Let me repeat what I understand... Your suggestion is that some kind of faith is activated if "god" decides to invent "green" energy instead of polluting energy so god gains "green faith" or "polluting faith" isn't that too complex? By choosing one of the different buildings gas energy or "green" energy you show already what you want... if it's indended to choose anyway. if this is a one time decision between green or polluting buildings.... so you end up with a polluted mother planet or a paradise and god powers could be a mirror of your decisions. a polluted planet can be cleaned with god powers but it is harder than keeping the balance on an already paradise like planet. Only my thougts.

 

16 hours ago, Sasha said:

We already implemented the ability to construct buildings by using the telekinesis god power. So similar to how in black and white you could grab trees etc and use the resources to build buildings, we have the same approach. So initially you will have for example Telekenesis, Le Cupidon + Rejuvenile god powers unlocked. As you will get stronger, you will get the ability to unlock powers that will allow you to create oceans,  plot trees etc.

 

"unlock powers" that would be great through an "research interface or progress interface" from the temple. so you can choose if you prefer more supporting or destructive powers.

 

faith of course should be gained trough your actions. i think we all agree in that point.

 

Maybe an option for special god powers in addition to some perks from the building tech tree are a good idea. to continue the idea from threeheaded monkey...

 

if you choose a polluting building you could be able to unlock a "polluting" god power like "gas or oil drain or refill" powers and gain a nearly limitless energy recource in exchange for polluting the planet fast.

Or you could be able to unlock a "green" building and unlock a "green" god power like "lake refill or miracle of life" to refill fish population and lakes oceans and maybe spawn animals. 

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8 hours ago, Kerby84 said:

Isn't that too much micromanagement? Especially with extreme traits? It's like the nugget breeding simulator then. I don't know if extreme traits are good for this game. harmless things like hair colour or such kind of things and funny traits like "sings while walking" are okay... but negative traits that affect gameplay are not such a good idea.... in my opinion.

Well obviously it will require some management, but there are a lot of traits and they all have good effect and a negative effect.If you will check black & white for example, you also have to manage your pet. You have to control where he is going and what he is doing constantly. Unless you will put him on a chain. Same with soldiers etc. So The amount of micromanagement won't exceed of what you can find in black and white  

4 hours ago, Kerby84 said:

What about a second tech tree avaiable trough the temple?

 

Let me repeat what I understand... Your suggestion is that some kind of faith is activated if "god" decides to invent "green" energy instead of polluting energy so god gains "green faith" or "polluting faith" isn't that too complex? By choosing one of the different buildings gas energy or "green" energy you show already what you want... if it's indended to choose anyway. if this is a one time decision between green or polluting buildings.... so you end up with a polluted mother planet or a paradise and god powers could be a mirror of your decisions. a polluted planet can be cleaned with god powers but it is harder than keeping the balance on an already paradise like planet. Only my thougts.

 

 

"unlock powers" that would be great through an "research interface or progress interface" from the temple. so you can choose if you prefer more supporting or destructive powers.

 

faith of course should be gained trough your actions. i think we all agree in that point.

 

Maybe an option for special god powers in addition to some perks from the building tech tree are a good idea. to continue the idea from threeheaded monkey...

 

if you choose a polluting building you could be able to unlock a "polluting" god power like "gas or oil drain or refill" powers and gain a nearly limitless energy recource in exchange for polluting the planet fast.

Or you could be able to unlock a "green" building and unlock a "green" god power like "lake refill or miracle of life" to refill fish population and lakes oceans and maybe spawn animals. 

This is something interesting about the pollution. I am not quite sure that we will be able to achieve that before the steam release, but this is something that can be done after it.  I also like the idea of unlocking god powers through the temple. Since we are removing god mail, we can re use prayer enclave building for that purpose in the stone age. 

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On 6/18/2018 at 6:42 PM, Sasha said:

This is coming. As your civilization progress forward, they will do more and more stuff autonomously. 

I like some of ideas here. What do you guys think if we will be unlocking god powers based on your actions ? For example as you do more actions people will be getting faith in you, or they will hate you. Obviously, as more people have faith in you, the more temples they will build and pray to you. As they pray, you will be getting stronger and stronger and you will unlock new god powers this way or another option is obviously way easier and as it was mentioned above - "develop faith through the research tree".

Unfortunately, this is one of the reason why we did, what we did :(

 

Well Thank you for your answer, and I hope you will succeed. I feel like something similar like they did in the Sims 3, like "autonomous level" would be nice. Someone likes to watch the nuggets like an ant farm, and others like to micromanage. I feel like for the god part of it we should mainly do researching, and helping out while they build their society. Politics and everything like that should be something we wouldn't have too much to do with.

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9 hours ago, Sasha said:

Well obviously it will require some management, but there are a lot of traits and they all have good effect and a negative effect.If you will check black & white for example, you also have to manage your pet. You have to control where he is going and what he is doing constantly. Unless you will put him on a chain. Same with soldiers etc. So The amount of micromanagement won't exceed of what you can find in black and white  

 

So I played TU all afternoon and considered how it would all work with traits. One major problem is that nuggets auto-assign themselves when someone dies. That makes it really hard to make sure that the ones with the right traits end up in the right jobs. And, if you're doing it all by hand, that's a ton of micromanagement. More than most might want. Once my population reached a rather impressive amount I was having a hard time just making sure everyone had access to food/water/engineers/etc. I can't imagine this on a macro scale across planets.

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16 hours ago, Sasha said:

.If you will check black & white for example, you also have to manage your pet. You have to control where he is going and what he is doing constantly. Unless you will put him on a chain. Same with soldiers etc.

I trained my pet well in the beginning so it was supportive. ;) do not eat my own followers, do not eat other followers, do poop on fields, water fields and entertain my villagers. ;-) nearly no micromanagement if it's trained well.  ;)  And for armies.. i never used them. you could impress other tribes trough impressiveness of your city. in b&w 2 and in b&w1 trough miracles you performed near an neutral or enemy city. Oh and I loved the Siren in B&W2.

 

"Look into the light - Join with me - You belong to me now - My love is everlasting - I'm what you want - We love you so much" 

 

Who needs armies if you have a Siren? ;)

 

 

:) I hope that's the case in the universim too with the other tribes... regain their faith trough "good actions" and not only trough one time quests and trading... the choice should be open... trade, good godly intervention, bad godly intervention or even nugget soldiers who knows... or an epic siren ;)  

 

So I doubt the le cupidon power is really useful for traits. It's too much micromanagement as SnorlaxRae said. Imagine a simple population of 50 nuggets... that's a pairing of 25 nuggets but when there are already traits in there you don't want to have... you simply do not pair them and have too much work to see trough every nugget id... it's a task that sounds funny at the beginning but get's borin over time i guess.

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Am 19.6.2018 um 14:58 schrieb Kerby84:

Let me repeat what I understand... Your suggestion is that some kind of faith is activated if "god" decides to invent "green" energy instead of polluting energy so god gains "green faith" or "polluting faith" isn't that too complex? By choosing one of the different buildings gas energy or "green" energy you show already what you want...

Not ultimately. Think of a pie chart. :)

The nuggets themselves are complex too and so their POVs/moods towards their deity, I think.  It just seems somehow vapid to me,  to just have some sort of "faith on/off" progression.

 

Oh, and for me the kinetic generator is a neutral tech. You are able to put mammoths in it, or nuggets,I guess?! So a green tech, yeah, but only until you actually want the nuggets to produce energy with "run until drop" settings,lol, but also when you start using the mammoths as fuel. ;)

 

Am 19.6.2018 um 14:58 schrieb Kerby84:

If you choose a polluting building you could be able to unlock a "polluting" god power like "gas or oil drain or refill" powers and gain a nearly limitless energy recource in exchange for polluting the planet fast.

Or you could be able to unlock a "green" building and unlock a "green" god power like "lake refill or miracle of life" to refill fish population and lakes oceans and maybe spawn animals.

 

That's pretty much what I was thinking of.^^

Am 19.6.2018 um 14:58 schrieb Kerby84:

the actual use of a certain technology.

 

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14 hours ago, SnorlaxRae said:

 

So I played TU all afternoon and considered how it would all work with traits. One major problem is that nuggets auto-assign themselves when someone dies. That makes it really hard to make sure that the ones with the right traits end up in the right jobs. And, if you're doing it all by hand, that's a ton of micromanagement. More than most might want. Once my population reached a rather impressive amount I was having a hard time just making sure everyone had access to food/water/engineers/etc. I can't imagine this on a macro scale across planets.

 

10 hours ago, Kerby84 said:

I trained my pet well in the beginning so it was supportive. ;) do not eat my own followers, do not eat other followers, do poop on fields, water fields and entertain my villagers. ;-) nearly no micromanagement if it's trained well.  ;)  And for armies.. i never used them. you could impress other tribes trough impressiveness of your city. in b&w 2 and in b&w1 trough miracles you performed near an neutral or enemy city. Oh and I loved the Siren in B&W2.

 

"Look into the light - Join with me - You belong to me now - My love is everlasting - I'm what you want - We love you so much" 

 

Who needs armies if you have a Siren? ;)

 

 

:) I hope that's the case in the universim too with the other tribes... regain their faith trough "good actions" and not only trough one time quests and trading... the choice should be open... trade, good godly intervention, bad godly intervention or even nugget soldiers who knows... or an epic siren ;)  

 

So I doubt the le cupidon power is really useful for traits. It's too much micromanagement as SnorlaxRae said. Imagine a simple population of 50 nuggets... that's a pairing of 25 nuggets but when there are already traits in there you don't want to have... you simply do not pair them and have too much work to see trough every nugget id... it's a task that sounds funny at the beginning but get's borin over time i guess.

I heard you.  Well one way how we can do it, is to test it and see how it will feel, another way is to improve the le cupidon god power. It started as a power that will help with the reproduction and we would like to keep it this way, but we can always see how we can make it more diverse and interesting. So if you have a good suggestion on the use of Le Cupidon besides creating a single family, let me know. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, threeheaded monkey said:

Not ultimately. Think of a pie chart. :)

The nuggets themselves are complex too and so their POVs/moods towards their deity, I think.  It just seems somehow vapid to me,  to just have some sort of "faith on/off" progression.

 

Oh, and for me the kinetic generator is a neutral tech. You are able to put mammoths in it, or nuggets,I guess?! So a green tech, yeah, but only until you actually want the nuggets to produce energy with "run until drop" settings,lol, but also when you start using the mammoths as fuel. ;)

 

 

That's pretty much what I was thinking of.^^

 

As I mentioned probably earlier, it looks like a good idea. My only concern is that we won't have enough time to implement it early on (before steam). When I posted research tree earlier, we did not plan to change the research system, but we saw overwhelmingly positive response to the new research tree so we just squizzed it inside. We had to completely redesign the whole tree and the way it works. So it took us a long time to make it. Right now, all the additional things with different branches will be a little bit hard to implement immediately, since each new branch require the addition of the new mechanics, but keep dropping ideas and evolve them further, because this is something that can help us to shape the research tree more and more as we progress and eventually get the amazing results :)

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5 hours ago, Sasha said:

So if you have a good suggestion on the use of Le Cupidon besides creating a single family, let me know. 

Maybe the le cupidon power is more a "casanova power" and forces a selected couple to reproduce instantly with gods help. does not matter if male or female are matched together. male female, female female and male male matched with le cupidon could create a "god blessed nugget child" which is smarter, stronger or faster as any other nugget. see is at "Zeus" metaphor... god's spirit blesses those both nuggets to immediatly create a child together out of nothing. Maybe some few of those "important personalities" could grow up and create new milestones for your civilization. Just an idea. Oh and btw. god's instant blessing is no cheating on existing partners of course. It's god's will. ;)  Maybe matching intelligent people toghether with le cupidon only for reproduction reasons not for family reasons could create a brilliant researcher. matching two strong nuggets could create a hercules like nugget wich can carry tons of things at once and hunt a mammoth alone. ;) such kind of "hey this is funny.... let's match those two nuggets and see what's happenig" thing... not a "oh no i don't want lazy nuggets... i need to pair this nugget and this nugget to avoid lazy nuggets" le cupidon should raise your interest in combining nuggets out of curiosity to see what special nugget appears. :-)

 

i can imagine tons of special nuggets created trough this system and it could be somehow combined with the special personalities you are planning to introduce. 

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6 hours ago, Kerby84 said:

Maybe the le cupidon power is more a "casanova power" and forces a selected couple to reproduce instantly with gods help. does not matter if male or female are matched together. male female, female female and male male matched with le cupidon could create a "god blessed nugget child" which is smarter, stronger or faster as any other nugget. see is at "Zeus" metaphor... god's spirit blesses those both nuggets to immediatly create a child together out of nothing. Maybe some few of those "important personalities" could grow up and create new milestones for your civilization. Just an idea. Oh and btw. god's instant blessing is no cheating on existing partners of course. It's god's will. ;)  Maybe matching intelligent people toghether with le cupidon only for reproduction reasons not for family reasons could create a brilliant researcher. matching two strong nuggets could create a hercules like nugget wich can carry tons of things at once and hunt a mammoth alone. ;) such kind of "hey this is funny.... let's match those two nuggets and see what's happenig" thing... not a "oh no i don't want lazy nuggets... i need to pair this nugget and this nugget to avoid lazy nuggets" le cupidon should raise your interest in combining nuggets out of curiosity to see what special nugget appears. :-)

 

i can imagine tons of special nuggets created trough this system and it could be somehow combined with the special personalities you are planning to introduce. 

 

You just gave me an idea. You're talking something akin to demigods. Divine children made through immaculate conception whose actions will reflect your attitude as a good. Terrorizing if evil, helping if good. Their traits are defined by their creator, naturally. It's an interesting concept to consider. Perhaps, in a small way, TU's answer to B&W's animal.

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3 hours ago, SnorlaxRae said:

You just gave me an idea. You're talking something akin to demigods. Divine children made through immaculate conception whose actions will reflect your attitude as a good. Terrorizing if evil, helping if good. Their traits are defined by their creator, naturally. It's an interesting concept to consider. Perhaps, in a small way, TU's answer to B&W's animal.

 

Yes it's a funny idea too. But if every le cupidon action would introduce a demigod  - there would be simply too many demigods. But yes maybe 1 from 100 uses there could be created a demigod kind of nugget. Or you simply only can have one (maybe some more later) at the same time and other nuggets created trough le cupidon are not demigods but simply created trough god's will. so the player has some direct control (if wanted) over the nugget population and reproduciton... maybe even to create worshipper only nuggets  trough le cupidon if they're not a demigod. so if you want to be evil... you create a nugget with le cupidon and sacrifice the miracle child instantly... or if you want to play good somehow... the "miracle child" lives in the temple and supports your other nuggets better than every other nugget could but not as perfect as a demigod. 

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In addition to what you guys suggested, now that exile villages will be a thing, I believe that not only should your actions portray how your people see you, but it also should make people stop believing in you and/or leaving to join other civilizations. Although I think it would be more fun if you had to manage your population (both heretics and believers). For example, if you are a tolerant god that accepts nuggets of all faiths, you would not earn as much faith points but you could get buffs to many aspects of nuggets or a happiness bonus. Perhaps you could fuse the two religions together. I really believe that multiple religions should be a thing, each with it's own tree/(however research works now). Inquisitions should happen, wars should be fought over religion, unrest should be generated e.t.c.

 

Another thing that would make a fine addition would be a hierarchical system of people that live to spread the glory of god (priests, clergy). You should be able to "speak to them" and help them make some decisions. The more they believe in you and the more power they hold, the more effective said decisions would be. These decisions would essentially spread the faith but could come at a cost with how society works ( zealous fighters at the expense of more people wanting to fight rather than work in your civ, religion being spread more easily but only men can be preachers, women have more kids but are restricted from some jobs, e.t.c. ).

 

Also, If you ever consider multiplayer, having each player be a god of a civ could be rather interesting, although I know not how the pacing would feel.

 

How do you feel about those ideas devs?

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On 6/20/2018 at 2:37 PM, Kerby84 said:

Maybe the le cupidon power is more a "casanova power" and forces a selected couple to reproduce instantly with gods help. does not matter if male or female are matched together. male female, female female and male male matched with le cupidon could create a "god blessed nugget child" which is smarter, stronger or faster as any other nugget. see is at "Zeus" metaphor... god's spirit blesses those both nuggets to immediatly create a child together out of nothing. Maybe some few of those "important personalities" could grow up and create new milestones for your civilization. Just an idea. Oh and btw. god's instant blessing is no cheating on existing partners of course. It's god's will. ;)  Maybe matching intelligent people toghether with le cupidon only for reproduction reasons not for family reasons could create a brilliant researcher. matching two strong nuggets could create a hercules like nugget wich can carry tons of things at once and hunt a mammoth alone. ;) such kind of "hey this is funny.... let's match those two nuggets and see what's happenig" thing... not a "oh no i don't want lazy nuggets... i need to pair this nugget and this nugget to avoid lazy nuggets" le cupidon should raise your interest in combining nuggets out of curiosity to see what special nugget appears. :-)

 

i can imagine tons of special nuggets created trough this system and it could be somehow combined with the special personalities you are planning to introduce. 

Actually this is something that can be cool. We should return to that after the steam release. I am not sure if we will be able to implement this like immediately, but this is something that can work out pretty well. Just have to make sure not to lose it :P

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On 6/21/2018 at 6:44 AM, John Baelish said:

In addition to what you guys suggested, now that exile villages will be a thing, I believe that not only should your actions portray how your people see you, but it also should make people stop believing in you and/or leaving to join other civilizations. Although I think it would be more fun if you had to manage your population (both heretics and believers). For example, if you are a tolerant god that accepts nuggets of all faiths, you would not earn as much faith points but you could get buffs to many aspects of nuggets or a happiness bonus. Perhaps you could fuse the two religions together. I really believe that multiple religions should be a thing, each with it's own tree/(however research works now). Inquisitions should happen, wars should be fought over religion, unrest should be generated e.t.c.

 

Another thing that would make a fine addition would be a hierarchical system of people that live to spread the glory of god (priests, clergy). You should be able to "speak to them" and help them make some decisions. The more they believe in you and the more power they hold, the more effective said decisions would be. These decisions would essentially spread the faith but could come at a cost with how society works ( zealous fighters at the expense of more people wanting to fight rather than work in your civ, religion being spread more easily but only men can be preachers, women have more kids but are restricted from some jobs, e.t.c. ).

 

Also, If you ever consider multiplayer, having each player be a god of a civ could be rather interesting, although I know not how the pacing would feel.

 

How do you feel about those ideas devs?

Well the exile village will be working in a similar way that you described above. People based on your actions will either be satisfied or very angry at you. So they will be leaving your city and create their own because of that, or join the existing. We don't wont you to have the control over other nuggets who have no faith in you because simply: more people believe in you, the stronger you are. If people have no faith in you, you are losing your power and therefore you have no control over them. 

 

Hierarchical system could work but we have to look into it from the programming stand point of view. Because this is the whole new system that has to be created from scratch, but it is a good idea.

 

Unfortunately. multiplayer is not something that is on our Radar right now. If steam will go well, we will definitely look into it, otherwise we will be working on the systems that were promised first. 

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31 minutes ago, Sasha said:

Just have to make sure not to lose it :P

I'll remind you ;) You can bet on it.

:lol:  This is not a threat -  it's a promise. :emoticon-00109-kiss:

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1 minute ago, Kerby84 said:

I'll remind you ;) You can bet on it.

:lol:  This is not a threat -  it's a promise. :emoticon-00109-kiss:

Sounds good, because when you have tons of stuff going on, it is easy to lose the track of things that you have to remember :=) 

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44 minutes ago, Sasha said:

Sounds good, because when you have tons of stuff going on, it is easy to lose the track of things that you have to remember :=) 

Totally understandable and no problem. We're here to support you and give feedback and remind ;) . So thanks again for the now great community contact. 

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11 hours ago, Kerby84 said:

Totally understandable and no problem. We're here to support you and give feedback and remind ;) . So thanks again for the now great community contact. 

Great to hear that :) We need it, especially right now when it is a lot of pressure on us with that steam release...

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Hey Guys, back to the Faith system: 

What actions do you think should provide you with a good points and what with a bad points? 

For example: Healing a nugget will give you good points on the other hand killing a nugget will give you bad points. 

 

 

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I thought the Idea of good and bad was gone. But I'm okay with the idea of good and bad. :) So welcome back ethics. ^^

Do we want to keep it simple or complex? ;) The definition of good and bad depends on the point of view.

 

For example... Killing a nugget might sound bad for someone who is good. But for someone who is "bad" it's maybe a good thing... If your nuggets are like children and you teach them what is good and what is bad... And you kill nuggets all the time... they maybe would be traumatized if you start healing them and question you as a god.

 

Just brainstorming...

 

I'd introduce two ways of good and bad. The god could decide and teach the nuggets what is good and bad by choosing a "shrine of love" or a "shrine of endless darkness".

 

The "shrine of love" is the classic good and bad system. healing protecting and such things could be good. killing in any way even between nuggets is bad... and so on... more creation powers for this kind of god. protection powers...

 

The "shrine of endless darkness" is the opposite of the classic good and bad system. killing is normal. even killing each other or sacrificing nuggets for the dark god... more and powerful destructive powers for this kind of god...

 

 

Chance for replayability here ;) 

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Im really only just joining this topic but I think one of the biggest inspirations for this can come from Lionhead Studios title: "Black & White (1 & 2). 

 

For example, one of the biggest things I see missing, even at the start of a game, is the introduction of a shrine to the player as a deity.  I mean it'd be nice too see the Nuggets at least build, craft and erect something in homage to the player for their worship.  Maybe an idol made of stone, a pyramid, obalisk, or even just a mighty shrine.  Something that says "This is our homage to our lord and gamer"


Ofc, being a deity in a game like THIS.  You MUST have options of being Good or Evil.  So why not have spells that reflect those?  Like summoning spirits for good and evil.  Or spells that can be considered as such. 
Even the concept of a spirit can have bonus effects.  Like a good spirit can keep a building from crumbling longer than most.  Give a Nugget harvesting bonuses at their job.  Or even heal injured Nuggets at the hospital.  Likewise Evil Spirits can make Nuggets go crazy.  Go on murder sprees.  Attack other tribes.  Curse buildings or parts of the world and damage resources. 

Even some of the side quests could offer the choice of good/evil for players.

 

One of the BIGGEST things I loved most was watching villages transform to suit my alignment.  So what if any monuments erected to the player reflect good / evil? 
I know about the Tree > Fountain monument in tribe era.  But what about things like pikes with skulls.  Sacrificial alters.  Torture halls.  Gladiatorial pits.  Witch doctors > Mad Scientists and so on.

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