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threeheaded monkey

[BRAINSTORM] Let's have faith and talk about it!

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Yep.

As the title says, let's talk about the faith/ believe system of the Universim and how it may look like, or not.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Sasha:

Just keep in mind 2 things: Organic and not too overkill. You know from first hand experience, that people would like to get the content fast and if it is not fast, everyone is upset and says that it takes too long. I would love to see extra interesting ideas about the system.

 

 

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Do it :) Just do it ! 

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So it would be interesting to know if a temple or prayer enclave thing is introduced in the new faith system. maybe in addition with a sacrifice altar.

 

I'll repeat myself from the other topic... I think a guidance is needed to give the player a kind of godly tutorial. You should start as a some kind of weak god and get stronger while your civilization grows and the faith in you grows trough prayer. This is a organic development in my opinion.

 

The problem I have is the inability to choose whether I want to care about a problem myself or give the nuggets the opportunity to care for themselves. If a Nugget has faith in a god he or she would not create a bunker for shelter unless told so by god in my opinion. But if god decides to shelter and protect the nuggets in a different way let's say in a temple that protects in a specified area from natural desasters and wild animals... or a godly shield or something else... i have the ability to choose. even to be cruel if i decide so. but that would be too complex maybe... but the thing with broken faith is a interesting view. if god speaks "i'll protect you" and fails... faith in god is lost.

 

Nuggets should pray and the first faith can unlock simple godly powers like resource picking and heal. which should be really cheap or even free... discussion about finetuning is too early. ;) 

maybe the first godly quest could introduce you to new godly powers. story driven research maybe. i once made the joke about elu wanting a new haircut and yells to adahy in their bed. And he desperately prays to god to build a hair salon or to kill elu. ;)

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15 minutes ago, Kerby84 said:

So it would be interesting to know if a temple or prayer enclave thing is introduced in the new faith system. maybe in addition with a sacrifice altar.

 

I'll repeat myself from the other topic... I think a guidance is needed to give the player a kind of godly tutorial. You should start as a some kind of weak good and get stronger while your civilization grows and the faith in you grows trough prayer. This is a organic development in my opinion.

So I will briefly let you know what were our thoughts. 

1) Move away from the good / bad good. Keep one system which is belief. Based on that system, have god powers unlock. Some of them will be unlocked immediately, but not all of them. 

2) We thought about creating sacrifice altar and altar where people can pray to you in order to increase the speed of points regeneration. 

Again, this is just some of our thoughts. We are open to other things.

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15 minutes ago, Sasha said:

1) Move away from the good / bad good. Keep one system which is belief. Based on that system, have god powers unlock. Some of them will be unlocked immediately, but not all of them. 

2) We thought about creating sacrifice altar and altar where people can pray to you in order to increase the speed of points regeneration. 

Again, this is just some of our thoughts. We are open to other things.

 

1) So the self build good bad building from the nuggets will be gone? What a pity. I liked it somehow. But yes it had no real meaning. maybe you can recycle it or some parts as sacrifice altar or shrine of life. 

 

2) good decision. but i would use the altar as main prayer collector. but not with a gmail user interface called godmail. I'd spawn nuggets there that pray to god and you can click them to hear their prayer. maybe indicated trough thinking bubbles or something else. feels more natural than a inbox for prayers.

 

As I said... i think basic god interactions like resource collecting should be really cheap or free. maybe even generate new belief trough your actions. for example... if you collect wood and put it down near a nugget you should gain belief. or [new mechanic] if you had the ability to use those resources directly to build buildings. In this case you have direct control over the progress and faith generation beside a temple. If you do more for your nuggets they have more time to pray. If you do less for them they don't have time to pray but you can simply watch them caring for themselves...

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Sasha:

1) Move away from the good / bad good. Keep one system which is belief. Based on that system, have god powers unlock. Some of them will be unlocked immediately, but not all of them. 

 

I more and more think that the choices of technologies we make define what a kind of god we are. Either one using the alternatives and poducing/developing in a sustainable way or one exploiting the motherplanet and the nuggets without any mercy. The believe system shouldn't purely be dependant  on the god powers or the god quests IMO, because so it would be possible to act "good" by using "good" god powers , but still we could use "bad" tech, so research is related to  believe and the way the nuggets consider god's choices,  isn't it?!

 

Also we can't just be "a" god, there has to be a way to personalize ourselves:

 

When using  destructive technologies and god powers more often, then 

(a) the nuggets should/ could be more afraid of the "cursor"

(b) the god powers that we may unlock should be even more destructive

(c) even the god quests should go more into the destructive direction

 

When using clean technologies and god powers more often, then

(a) the nuggets should/could be more impressed of the "cursor"

(b) the god powers that we may unlock should be even more clean

(c) even the god quests should go more into the clean direction

 

 

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1 hour ago, threeheaded monkey said:

Also we can't just be "a" god, there has to be way to personalize ourselfs:

 

When using  destructive technologies and god powers more often, then 

(a) the nuggets should/ could be more afraid of the "cursor"

(b) the god powers that we may unlock should be even more destructive

(c) even the god quests should go more into the destructive direction

 

When using clean technologies and god powers more often, then

(a) the nuggets should/could be impressed of the "cursor"

(b) the god powers that we may unlock should be even more clean

(c) even the god quests should go more into the clean direction

 

 

 

I would love to personalize my experience as a god and to have the nuggets react to my presence in their lives. I hate to bring up Black & White but it did have some great ideas on how to implement god abilities. I wasn't a fan of the animal avatar pet thing but having a holy building for prayer that will give you your god quests (love the GodMail lol) would be good. Above all I want to feel like a god. I want to feel like I'm really interacting with my followers and guiding their advancement until one day they leave the planet and carry my influence to other worlds. There are a ton of city builders/rts games on the market but the last god games of any repute is Lionhead's B&W games and Maxis' Spore. Nothing has been as good or captured the feeling of being a god but it had fluff and issues of its own that Universim has avoided so far. I really love this game. I've loved it since I ran the demo and saw what the engine was capable of. There's a huge void in this niche and I see this game being heralded as one of the best indies and likely, the best god game ever. [ /ramble off ]

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To continue the brainstorming flow...

 

I believe it is really important to give the player the power to choose if he or she wants a connection to the nuggets or not. Some may prefer a gameplay like a rts builder and that's fine. Some others prefer a direct contact to nuggets. Maybe some prefer the nuggets to do nothing else than praying at the altar while god takes care of every other aspect. Some others want to set up things and let the nuggets do their thing and observe.

 

For example (yes B&W reference but this game is great):

 

building... god could build buildings or leave it up to the nuggets. if he decides to build he (or she) gains faith from the nuggets.

resource harvesting.... god could harvest resources or leave it up to the nuggets. if he (or she) decides to harvest resources it should generate faith.

food harvesting from fields or bushes... the same... 

protecting the nuggets from wild animals or natural desasters...

 

god should not feel like an option in this game for all playstiles. granted. some prefer to watch and place buildings but some prefer a divine gameplay in which god matters more than a guard tower or a bunker. ;) 

 

both should be possible to please both playstyles so the player can choose between being a watching or an active god.

 

For the faith system... an active god should be able to generate faith trough actions or at least should have free basic interactions like picking up resources to generate faith faster.

There could be an temple upgrade to decide which way you want to go as god. more active or more observing. which also could affect prayer. a "observing" god could get different prayers than a active god... 

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vor 8 Stunden schrieb Kerby84:

I believe it is really important to give the player the power to choose if he or she wants a connection to the nuggets or not. Some may prefer a gameplay like a rts builder and that's fine. Some others prefer a direct contact to nuggets. Maybe some prefer the nuggets to do nothing else than praying at the altar while god takes care of every other aspect. Some others want to set up things and let the nuggets do their thing and observe.

 

What really is missing, is the "feeling" of playing a god game, literally.  I'd say the current foundation of the game is fine, but all the managing aspects have to be driven/ruled  by the  godly gameplay.   Every god game is a rts, but not every rts is a god game.

 

The idea of having different kinds of "faith",  similiar to Fable's approach of gathering experience. 

Energy production is a good example:

 

When choosing the wind turbine we could get "eco-faith", because the nuggets understand it as a "green" technology, which does not harm anyone. Therefor we can use that faith for "eco/good god powers" only and/or progress towards being an "eco god".

 

When choosing the kinetic generator we could get "grey-faith", because the nuggets understand it as a technology, which does not really harm anyone, but they aren't happy about it either. Therefor we can use that faith for "grey/neutral god powers" only and/or progress towards being a "grey god".

 

When using the gas plants we could get "issue-faith", because the nuggets understand it as a problematic technology, which harms the nuggets and the motherplanet.

Therefor we can use that faith for "Issue/bad god powers" only and/or  progress towards being an "issue-god".

 

So it somehow depends on our research choices, ofc (Again, we can't just be "a" god.) and the way the nuggets understand them and then generate faith accordingly.

And  becasue of that I think we need a far more "complicated" and "far-reaching" tech tree,heh. Mooar choices! :)

 

The god quests could  be modified in the same way, so that the players/gods in fact experience the result of their choices and get the  "rewards" accordingly.

 

 

 

 

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B&W/B&W2 is an inspiration for any god game, black and white 1 had building mechanics, plop a few huts and they'll love you for sure. Black and white 2 evolved it more, more build elements and opened up to the rts portion, place spikes/skulls and the like fostered the path along the world is going to destruct so rise my minions vs planting flowers and lovey hold my hand lets skip throughout the forest type.

but in terms of universim, the current way the game is now can be opened up during the medieval part after stone age, god powers start coming to the forefront when the Nug's are aware/or feel presence of something is *out* there, thus opens up your god powers albeit limited but growing.
in the stone age i believe it would be early days for the god to be active in their lives, rather they wouldnt have the idea of a god concept, remember fire to the neanderthals.. in most iterations fire is... oohh bad joojoo..
so as a god *player* stone age is mainly i think catering to develop the Nug's into their own civilisation and when you start going over into the medieval age, the evo tower's first research could be "adehy is seeing visions, prove you exist or not.." could branch into either more faith from showing you exist, the god essentially is real lets pray quick build it a temple (which keeps the god game alive), or let the Nug's think adehy is crazy and receive slower faith build, which leads into the rts portion people love playing.

this is my take hope it helps

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Ok. So I really wonder, what the heck is going on with this community? There are some very important topics around, crucial ones; but nobody bothers to leave any kind of feedback.

I don't get it.. Are you people happy about the state of the game as is, so no feedback is needed or don't you care anymore?

 

Don't you have any questions to the devs? Nothing?

 

I'm not surprised that crytivo decided to concentrate on twitter more than this forum, when there is nothing going on...^^

 

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I like the game very much, I just think the nuggets should be more autonomous than they are. Doing things for themselves, learning how to build, how to hunt and so on.

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Well they focus on the E3 at the moment anyway. ;) I wait until the devs return for more brainstorming and feedback. I for my part gave enough feedback for years of development ;) so it's your turn communty.

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Hey guys, sorry for the delay. We just returned from E3. I will be checking all the feedback over the weekend. I have to catch up here with some things today! :)

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On 6/12/2018 at 11:05 AM, Kerby84 said:

 

1) So the self build good bad building from the nuggets will be gone? What a pity. I liked it somehow. But yes it had no real meaning. maybe you can recycle it or some parts as sacrifice altar or shrine of life. 

 

2) good decision. but i would use the altar as main prayer collector. but not with a gmail user interface called godmail. I'd spawn nuggets there that pray to god and you can click them to hear their prayer. maybe indicated trough thinking bubbles or something else. feels more natural than a inbox for prayers.

 

As I said... i think basic god interactions like resource collecting should be really cheap or free. maybe even generate new belief trough your actions. for example... if you collect wood and put it down near a nugget you should gain belief. or [new mechanic] if you had the ability to use those resources directly to build buildings. In this case you have direct control over the progress and faith generation beside a temple. If you do more for your nuggets they have more time to pray. If you do less for them they don't have time to pray but you can simply watch them caring for themselves...

Currently we consider removing it and use it as one of the prayers that nuggets will still build. This is something that is pretty sad to remove, but it was correctly said, that it breaks an immersion too much. 

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On 6/15/2018 at 8:25 AM, Tokrun said:

I like the game very much, I just think the nuggets should be more autonomous than they are. Doing things for themselves, learning how to build, how to hunt and so on.

This is coming. As your civilization progress forward, they will do more and more stuff autonomously. 

I like some of ideas here. What do you guys think if we will be unlocking god powers based on your actions ? For example as you do more actions people will be getting faith in you, or they will hate you. Obviously, as more people have faith in you, the more temples they will build and pray to you. As they pray, you will be getting stronger and stronger and you will unlock new god powers this way or another option is obviously way easier and as it was mentioned above - "develop faith through the research tree".

On 6/15/2018 at 7:22 AM, threeheaded monkey said:

Ok. So I really wonder, what the heck is going on with this community? There are some very important topics around, crucial ones; but nobody bothers to leave any kind of feedback.

I don't get it.. Are you people happy about the state of the game as is, so no feedback is needed or don't you care anymore?

 

Don't you have any questions to the devs? Nothing?

 

I'm not surprised that crytivo decided to concentrate on twitter more than this forum, when there is nothing going on...^^

 

Unfortunately, this is one of the reason why we did, what we did :(

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3 hours ago, Sasha said:

What do you guys think if we will be unlocking god powers based on your actions ? For example as you do more actions people will be getting faith in you, or they will hate you. Obviously, as more people have faith in you, the more temples they will build and pray to you. As they pray, you will be getting stronger and stronger and you will unlock new god powers this way or another option is obviously way easier and as it was mentioned above - "develop faith through the research tree".

 

Depends on the starting god powers. I'd agree if starting god powers would be easy resource gathering or a godly "build" power to help the nuggets. this could be your first actions on the godly way. What did you plan @Sasha? Is direct resource collecting wood stone or food and god building buildings a thing?

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1 minute ago, Kerby84 said:

 

Depends on the starting god powers. I'd agree if starting god powers would be easy resource gathering or a godly "build" power to help the nuggets. this could be your first actions on the godly way. What did you plan @Sasha? Is direct resource collecting wood stone or food and god building buildings a thing?

We already implemented the ability to construct buildings by using the telekinesis god power. So similar to how in black and white you could grab trees etc and use the resources to build buildings, we have the same approach. So initially you will have for example Telekenesis, Le Cupidon + Rejuvenile god powers unlocked. As you will get stronger, you will get the ability to unlock powers that will allow you to create oceans,  plot trees etc.

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As I understood Le Cupidon was a fix to a breeding issue in earlier development. As it's nigh impossible to tell who still needs to fall in love, what purpose will it serve going forward?

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