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Lissa Gloom

Research and Evolution

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So I've been playing this game since version 11 and eagerly awaited the research and evolution elements of the game to be implemented and have not been dissapointed. However there have been a few minor tweaks I think would improve the feel of the game immensly. Firstly it's the order in which research appears. Mostly it's fine but here's a thought. Why can we research eateries and cemetaries which have funeral pyres before we research fire. There's 0 logic. It would make more sense if you had to discover fire to be able to research those buildings. It would allow the yellow/green/purple research to interact more directly with blue research. This brings me to my second point. Blue research appears in multiple set tiers. This makes game progress feel extremely rigid, allowing very little freedom to focus where we want to. By making yellow/green/purple research, which appears randomly, unlock related blue research, you allow players much more freedom to focus on what they want, shape their civilisation in more unique ways and remove the rigidity that the current research system has. At the moment it feels like I play the same game over and over again because I'm only able to access the same things in the same pattern each time. Aside from current balancing and AI issue which will obviously be taken care of over time, this is my only concern as this is what could remain and I feel incredibly strongly about this so I hope it will be considered for future improvements. I also have a few ideas for more research possibilities e.g. 'annual check ups' After unlocking and building the hospital a yellow research icon could appear this research could improve nuggets overall life spans by a small percentage, after this has been researched (or after hospital has been upgraded) it could unlock a purple research called 'booster shots' which could do the same thing again by an appreciable percentage. I'd love to hear your thoughts and will continue to think of other ways the different levels of research could intermingle.

Edit: I feel it important to add that for my example, simply making fire a blue research would be counter productive as it adds more rigidity rather than make research feel organic.

Edited by Lissa Gloom
Elaboration needed.

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On 4/28/2018 at 12:12 AM, Lissa Gloom said:

So I've been playing this game since version 11 and eagerly awaited the research and evolution elements of the game to be implemented and have not been dissapointed. However there have been a few minor tweaks I think would improve the feel of the game immensly. Firstly it's the order in which research appears. Mostly it's fine but here's a thought. Why can we research eateries and cemetaries which have funeral pyres before we research fire. There's 0 logic. It would make more sense if you had to discover fire to be able to research those buildings. It would allow the yellow/green/purple research to interact more directly with blue research. This brings me to my second point. Blue research appears in multiple set tiers. This makes game progress feel extremely rigid, allowing very little freedom to focus where we want to. By making yellow/green/purple research, which appears randomly, unlock related blue research, you allow players much more freedom to focus on what they want, shape their civilisation in more unique ways and remove the rigidity that the current research system has. At the moment it feels like I play the same game over and over again because I'm only able to access the same things in the same pattern each time. Aside from current balancing and AI issue which will obviously be taken care of over time, this is my only concern as this is what could remain and I feel incredibly strongly about this so I hope it will be considered for future improvements. I also have a few ideas for more research possibilities e.g. 'annual check ups' After unlocking and building the hospital a yellow research icon could appear this research could improve nuggets overall life spans by a small percentage, after this has been researched (or after hospital has been upgraded) it could unlock a purple research called 'booster shots' which could do the same thing again by an appreciable percentage. I'd love to hear your thoughts and will continue to think of other ways the different levels of research could intermingle.

Edit: I feel it important to add that for my example, simply making fire a blue research would be counter productive as it adds more rigidity rather than make research feel organic.

 

On 4/28/2018 at 12:50 AM, threeheaded monkey said:

 

Hey guys, we know about the issue and we are working on it. We can't promise that it will be implemented by steam release, because we are working on some exciting big mechanics for it that we hope you will like, but after steam this will be the first thing to improve on our list.

 

Sincerely,

Sasha

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Well, it's not an "issue" actually, rather a not fully developed but very important part of your game...

 

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Sasha:

..and we are working on it.

 

So, what do you think about research? :)

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16 minutes ago, threeheaded monkey said:

Well, it's not an "issue" actually, rather a not fully developed but very important part of your game...

 

 

So, what do you think about research? :)

Currently we have 3 prototypes of the new research approach. One of them similar to what people suggested above and you quoted. 

 

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Aaaah. Informations, lol.

 

See, I wasn't complaining and I hope you don't get it that way, heh. But without proper informations the community is not able to give proper feedback.

Anyway.

 

Many thanks for your reply, @Sasha !

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Just now, threeheaded monkey said:

Aaaah. Informations, lol.

 

See, I wasn't complaining and I hope you don't get it that way, heh. But without proper informations the community is not able to give proper feedback.

Anyway.

 

Many thanks for your reply, Sasha!

The main issue is not providing you guys with information and what we have.  Before saying something for sure, we need to make sure that we can handle it in a timely manner, decide which prototype will work the best for our needs. We don't want to show you guys something, that later down in the process we will have to cut and get you upset, because we showed this amazing prototype, but due to time constrains 10%,20% or w/e now is missing from it. First, we have to finalize the prototype, then we can share information with the community and see what you guys have to say about it.

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4 minutes ago, Sasha said:

The main issue is not providing you guys with information and what we have.  Before saying something for sure, we need to make sure that we can handle it in a timely manner, decide which prototype will work the best for our needs. We don't want to show you guys something, that later down in the process we will have to cut and get you upset, because we showed this amazing prototype, but due to time constrains 10%,20% or w/e now is missing from it. First, we have to finalize the prototype, then we can share information with the community and see what you guys have to say about it.

I only can speak for me but i don't get upset if something broken is changed for the better. But why don't you say "What do you think about this or that. We need to do this and that and have this or that problems with it. That's open, honest and would be great if we could feel a bit involved in the process. Share our thoughts about ideas...." you get my point. Oh and thank you for answering @Sasha :)

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1 minute ago, Kerby84 said:

 

I only can speak for me but i don't get upset if something broken is changed for the better. But why don't you say "What do you think about this or that. We need to do this and that and have this or that problems with it. That's open, honest and would be great if we could feel a bit involved in the process. Share our thoughts about ideas...." you get my point.

I see your point Kerby84. We will try to do our best to improve our communication between us & community. Usually we follow the road map that is available for everyone, but I agree that we can be more precise with some of the aspects and provide you guys more updates about the current development. We will rethink the way we are delivering the information to you guys. 

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vor 15 Minuten schrieb Sasha:

First, we have to finalize the prototype, then we can share information with the community and see what you guys have to say about it.

 

This could end up the one way or the other. The worst case would be you realizing that you were spending a lot of time for finalizing a prototype which in the end isn't  congruent with what the community was hoping for.

 

Edit: Yeah. let's find a solution TOGETHER! heh

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7 minutes ago, threeheaded monkey said:

 

This could end up the one way or the other. The worst case would be you realizing that you were spending a lot of time for finalizing a prototype which in the end isn't  congruent with what the community was hoping for.

 

In this case... The communty does not want the prototype if the majority does not like it... it's better to know the earlyer the better... or do you want to do hard work and implement something to the final stage if the community is against it? that does not make sense... the community will sooner or later judge it trough a review... so isn't it better to implement the community as early as possible and then invest work time if the majority of the community likes the idea?

 

see we can talk honestly and open. if you'd share ideas before you invest time in programming and grapics you could get precious feedback. the war for the overworld team asked the community about graphics, names and many other things during development... and all are pleased. it's a great game now. 

 

or do you expect "yes sayers" as fans and customers? honesty is important if you believe in something. 

 

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3 minutes ago, threeheaded monkey said:

 

This could end up the one way or the other. The worst case would be you realizing that you were spending a lot of time for finalizing a prototype which in the end isn't  congruent with what the community was hoping for.

 

Edit: Yeah. let's find a solution TOGETHER! heh

 That is why it is a prototype :)  It is a rough outline of the idea, but tested that it will work and that we can do it fast.  In the game dev world, the ideas are cheap. It is easy to came up with millions great ideas and expend on them. The hard part is to make them simple and fun for people. We have a lot of amazing ideas, but once we dig into them, we realize that it will take us for example just a pure 3 month to develop it and we have to simplify the idea over and over, until we can fit it in a timely manner.  
As an example with the micro management topic. We saw that you guys provided a lot of amazing ideas and we really appreciate that. We took notes on what bothering everyone the most and trying to resolve that aspect based on your suggestions and ideas.  Unfortunately, we can't blindly follow the great ideas provided in the topic, because 95% of them will require us to redo major systems in the game, which means we will spend time just redoing things over and over again without creating a new content and working on the old content. Not everyone is happy of not having a new content, but having an improved old system. Therefore, we are trying to listen to you guys and your wishes and came up with a solution. 

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2 minutes ago, Sasha said:

 That is why it is a prototype :)  It is a rough outline of the idea, but tested that it will work and that we can do it fast.  In the game dev world, the ideas are cheap. It is easy to came up with millions great ideas and expend on them. The hard part is to make them simple and fun for people. We have a lot of amazing ideas, but once we dig into them, we realize that it will take us for example just a pure 3 month to develop it and we have to simplify the idea over and over, until we can fit it in a timely manner.  
As an example with the micro management topic. We saw that you guys provided a lot of amazing ideas and we really appreciate that. We took notes on what bothering everyone the most and trying to resolve that aspect based on your suggestions and ideas.  Unfortunately, we can't blindly follow the great ideas provided in the topic, because 95% of them will require us to redo major systems in the game, which means we will spend time just redoing things over and over again without creating a new content and working on the old content. Not everyone is happy of not having a new content, but having an improved old system. Therefore, we are trying to listen to you guys and your wishes and came up with a solution. 

So that supports my point ;-) If you've asked earlier.... In the beginning.... ;-) You've had less work. ;-) And a super involved and happy fanbase. ;-)

 

Let's say... hey our idea is this... we want micromanagement...

community: no way...

you: okay what do you want...

community... this that 

you: hey great wee need x time for this

community... hey great. we're happy to wait. ;-)

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7 minutes ago, Kerby84 said:

In this case... The communty does not want the prototype if the majority does not like it... it's better to know the earlyer the better... or do you want to do hard work and implement something to the final stage if the community is against it? that does not make sense... the community will sooner or later judge it trough a review... so isn't it better to implement the community as early as possible and then invest work time if the majority of the community likes the idea?

 

see we can talk honestly and open. if you'd share ideas before you invest time in programming and grapics you could get precious feedback. the war for the overworld team asked the community about graphics, names and many other things during development... and all are pleased. it's a great game now. 

 

or do you expect "yes sayers" as fans and customers? honesty is important if you believe in something. 

 

The prototype is a quick, very simplified version of the final product. Consider it a sketch if you wish, with outlined work that has to be done in order to make it final.

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb Sasha:

We have a lot of amazing ideas, but once we dig into them, we realize that it will take us for example just a pure 3 month to develop it and we have to simplify the idea over and over, until we can fit it in a timely manner.  
As an example with the micro management topic.

 

See. Once the studio has done its own brainstorming why not  involving the community (partially) then? ( @Kerby84 already mentioned the "community labs". )

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1 minute ago, Kerby84 said:

So that supports my point ;-) If you've asked earlier.... In the beginning.... ;-) You've had less work. ;-) And a super involved and happy fanbase. ;-)

 

Let's say... hey our idea is this... we want micromanagement...

community: no way...

you: okay what do you want...

community... this that 

you: hey great wee need x time for this

community... hey great. we're happy to wait. ;-)

Well you can't make everyone happy :) As I was reading the micro management topic, a lot of people were against it, but a lot of people didn't mind it or even liked it. Despite people being divided into 2 separate groups, we saw something in common that everyone was saying. For example,  the community did not like the approach with the farm. So currently we are thinking how can we improve it. All the ideas that you guys are saying and posting, we are going through them and we consider each idea while we are working on the new mechanics. 

We really trying our best to communicate with you guys. I agree that it can be improved and as I said we will work on that improvement. 

1 minute ago, threeheaded monkey said:

 

See. Once the studio has done its own brainstorming why not  involving the community (partially) then? ( @Kerby84 already mentioned the "community labs". )

This is out plan to do with the research approach. Once we get the final idea that we can actually finish in a timely manner. We will provide the idea to the community.

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Just now, threeheaded monkey said:

 

See. Once the studio has done its own brainstorming why not  involving the community (partially) then? ( @Kerby84 already mentioned the "community labs". )

They are afraid we might don't like the ideas they have. ;-) It's like the american voting system. Democratic elections but not really democratic because Electoral College decides in the end. :lol:

3 minutes ago, Sasha said:

Well you can't make everyone happy :) As I was reading the micro management topic, a lot of people were against it, but a lot of people didn't mind it or even liked it. Despite people being divided into 2 separate groups, we saw something in common that everyone was saying. For example,  the community did not like the approach with the farm. So currently we are thinking how can we improve it. All the ideas that you guys are saying and posting, we are going through them and we consider each idea while we are working on the new mechanics. 

We really trying our best to communicate with you guys. I agree that it can be improved and as I said we will work on that improvement. 

This is out plan to do with the research approach. Once we get the final idea that we can actually finish in a timely manner. We will provide the idea to the community.

You can make the majority happy. As you said... those who don't care can't be counted to a group. ;-)

 

So now let's talk about the ideas you have for the god aspect of the game? please don't say you've added some divine powers only....

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Could we not just leave the farms and cities behind,lol.

 

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Sasha:

This is out plan to do with the research approach. Once we get the final idea that we can actually finish in a timely manner. We will provide the idea to the community.

I'll quote you on that,heh.

 

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Kerby84:

They are afraid we might don't like the ideas they have.

It's as you said: the earlier the better

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1 minute ago, threeheaded monkey said:

Could we not just leave the farms and cities behind,lol.

 

:lol: :emoticon-00109-kiss:

 

YOU MADE MY DAY! 

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A pleasure,heh.  (It always pops into my mind when playing the game for while,lol)

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Thanks for responding Sasha. I'm glad to find out that the issue was already in Crytivo's sites. I understand that there's many different elements still in production and design so I felt pretty safe my ideas would be timely. :) I just want to double down on how much I appreciate the work being put in this game, so I know whatever direction the research system takes I'm 100% confident it will be a good one. If there's any information available on the prototypes in development I'd appreciate a link to them if possible. As someone mentioned above, giving feedback can be a little confusing as this website can be overwhelming and hard to navigate. This is why I had waited so long to post this. Looking forward to what is to come! 

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Hello dear friends. Thanks for the time and suggestion, as always, we're reviewing them internally very carefully. It looks like @Kerby84 requires attention to his persona that our team is not capable of providing. We gather feedback and our community managers very active on the forums and respond in a timely manner. We share things in our devblogs, a lot of things change as we develop based on community feedback, we share ideas and mechanics that we know that will make to the game 100% We refuse to false promise something that we're not sure we will be able to introduce to the game, the only thing we can say is that we agree that there is an issue with certain mechanics and we're reviewing it. We have an active community on a discordant, twitter and Facebook that we are actively working with as well. If there is anything we can do better, we're happy to hear constructive criticism, we don't have a dedicated person that will run around our forums to satisfy mr @Kerby84s needs. We respect and value his feedback, but he is been very demanding for attention that we can't satisfy at this stage mainly because our team is not big and we'd rather invest our time developing what we promised then trying to satisfy one person. I believe our team doing amazing work by sharing everything that's been done in the studio during the month and blogs about the most important features we plan to add. Please reference to our news section for updates: https://theuniversim.com/news Thanks again for great ideas and suggestions @Lissa Gloom & @threeheaded monkey. We're reviewing research system and your feedback is very influential for us.

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Good luck with it all!

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*bowing respectfully*

 

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Lissa Gloom:

Good luck with it all!

 Seconded.

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Oh come on @AKoshelkov we talked about it. I don't want personal communication with you. I only want this game to be a success and I'm not alone. But as @Sasha mentioned...

 

58 minutes ago, Sasha said:

 ...We took notes on what bothering everyone the most and trying to resolve that aspect based on your suggestions and ideas.  Unfortunately, we can't blindly follow the great ideas provided in the topic, because 95% of them will require us to redo major systems in the game, which means we will spend time just redoing things over and over again without creating a new content and working on the old content. Not everyone is happy of not having a new content, but having an improved old system. Therefore, we are trying to listen to you guys and your wishes and came up with a solution. 

You simply could have saved time and manpower with a more open development in the community so you don't have to redo things over and over again.

 

A simple "we are working on" and "what do you think about the idea" system like in the beginning with the community labs would be great but you decided to develop more closed and not to ask the community. Your decision. It's your game in the end and your vision. You'll get your reviews sooner or later in Steam. I only wanted to know which way the game is developed. You don't seem to have a plan yet or you wouldn't be so vocal against me. 

 

So is this a personal attack @AKoshelkov? This ist the main channel. Your forum. So main communication should be here. Nowhere else. But hey. Do what you want. August will tell if people like your vision or not.

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